Curse

Shrapnel_Magnet · Jun 01, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Alright, I've been trying to follow the Ranger threads around here to see what people's opinions are and such.

There seems to be this "grey area" where people supposedly have this godly ranger build that no one else can seem to figure out. Others are stuck not knowing where to take their build or why they should even start one. Personally, no ranger, I don't care WHAT build can kill 2 average warriors by him/herself. Nor can they outdamage their entire team's total DPS or any of the other garbage I hear spewed constantly.

However, I realize that this isn't going to stop so all I ask is that if you think you're a real Top Gun with your awesome Ranger build: Post It. Don't post about your feats and your huge DPS... just post your build and tell us what you've done with it. Not only will we be able to see if you're full of crap, but others will be able to see what your doing and maybe get a few ideas of their own.

Don't just post a couple skills, post the attributes and your 8 skills, along with your main weapon(s).

Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of builds posted, but none are usually posted by the people boasting about how they outdamage warriors all the time etc. etc.

Don't forget to include a summary of your strategy to add some credibility.

To start things off, this is my general PvE and PvP Build that I run.

R/N (PvE)

11+3 Expertise
11+2 Marksmenship
3+1 Beast Mastery
8 Curses

Barrage
Penetrating Attack
Distracting Shot
Enfeeble
Tiger's Fury
BLANK (interchangable... sometimes Signet of Capture, Whirling Defense, etc)
Shadow of Fear
Res Sig

15-28 Zealous Half Moon of Shelter (+1 energy on hit, - 1 energy regenerating... +6 defense vs. Physical)

This is pretty typical, nothing crazy going on. I often play around with this build... the Enfeeble, SoF and Blank skills often are switched randomly depending on the situation. The core of this build is really the Tiger's Fury, Barrage, Penetrating Attack and Distracting Shot. I grab Res Sig because it's easily the most convenient resurection skills in the game.

R/N (PvP)

Same attributes as before.

Barrage
Penetrating Attack
Distracting Shot
Debilitating Shot
Tiger's Fury
Pin Down
Rend Enchantments
Res Sig

Same Bow as before.

The most bland and cookie cutter Ranger that you'll ever see is right here. Nothing special going on... sometimes Res Sig will get swapped for Concussion or Savage Shot or anything else. Either way, as before, the CORE of this build is the Barrage, Penetrating, Distracting, Debil, Tiger's Fury, and Pin Down... so basically the whole thing. Any Ranger in PvP who's NOT using at least SOME variation of those skills is missing something.

Don't waste distracting shot on anything... look for people who are casting Resurection Spells, Meteor Showers, Maelstroms, Well of the Profane.. Anything that takes 3+ seconds to cast is Distract Bait... within reason. Also, don't be afraid to "camp" a character. If you see an Elementalist casting fire spells, there's a good chance that he's packing Meteor Shower, so follow him around.

This comes back to the "Support" idea. So what if you're not doing 100 damage a hit? Put yourself in a position to make what damage you have COUNT. Follow that Ele around until he makes a mistake and casts Meteor Shower. Once you distrupt it, look at the game clock. Remember that time... wait 60 seconds or so and find that Elementalist again... wait for him to cast Meteor Shower and hit him again. It's not that hard.

In the meantime, if you don't have anyone who's casting monk hate... find that Mesmer casting Backfire or find that W/Mo who's Resurecting... find that Pesky Necro who's stripping your team of Enchantments. Don't sit there and bounce arrows of that Warriors armour. Seriously, make note of the called target, attack him for a bit... but cycle through the enemy team and find the best targets. Don't follow your target caller blindly... hell, you might even BE the target caller.

In this case, call the targets, but don't be afraid to switch targets and stop that rezzer or whatever. I found myself becoming a better Ranger after playing the other classes for a little while. Try and Ele for a bit and see what kind of skill chains your find yourself using. "Glyph of Lesser Energy followed by... Firestorm"... hmm, as a Ranger, if you see "Glyph of Lesser Energy", you should be expecting an expensive skill coming up next... higher cost spells usually come with a longer cast time, perfect for your friend 'Distracting Shot'.

Using Savage Shot and Concussion shot are a bit trickier. Save those for the really long spells like Meteor Shower and Maelstrom and such... Distracting Shot however is a playful little thing. Seriously, just try and see what you can hit. I said before not to waste it, but if the game is not too serious, play around. Try and hit that Ether Fest, or that Ranger's Preperation or Conjure Element. Maybe target that monk and see if your fast enough to get that Healing Breeze. It's tough, but it can be done... I'm not good enough to hit it everytime, but I can catch it occasionally.

Point is... don't be a drone. Your ranger isn't going to get good all by himself. Your skills aren't impressive by themselves, but they can cause a lot of trouble if your play them right.

I'm not the best ranger you'll ever see, but I do my best... and I can make it work. I'm sure all of you can as well. Start really looking at your skill bar... do you NEED that crappy 3 second Troll Unguent?

Tindalos · Jun 01, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Very nice and good comments about thinking about combinations and strategies. I hope others post their thoughts and approaches as well.

Mercury Rivenswift · Jun 01, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Hey nice ranger post. I'll actually listen to your advice since I see Idiot Savants winning HOH every night. I think the best thing about the ranger is probably his armor. Although not as good a disruptor as other classes, ranger armor can make other teams ignore you while you cause more damage. I'm just not sure what secondary to get. I hear good things about monk secondary with judge's insight. Resurrection spells will also help in pve.

Beqxter · Jun 01, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Well, I can't claim to be killing warriors in two shots, but (with the help of people on this forum) I HAVE started killing them every now and then in Arena. I'm only lvl15 and still in Shiverpeak (I've run Lions Arch a couple times and got seriously smacked each time. think I need to wait a bit). BUT, for beginners, here's my build which is working pretty well:

R/W15

Attributes (estimates, I'm not at home PC):
Expertise: 9
Marksmanship: 8
Wilderness Survival: 8

PvP Skills:
Frenzy
Apply Poison
Hunter's Shot
Pin Down
Distracting Shot
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent
Res Sig

Bow: 12-24 Shortbow, no added perks (still looking)

Strategy: Gates open and I tab through, looking for casters. If no one calls, I do. Once engaged, I go to high ground and look for trees or rocks that might help hide on a cursory glance. Apply Poison, Frenzy, then tab-space until as much of the other party as is in range is poisoned. Then back to the caster, keeping frenzy and poison up and waiting for distracting shot opportunities. Every 20 seconds or so, if no one has noticed me, I'll tab through again and re-poison everyone. If target moves, hunter's shot to set them bleeding.

If a warriors notices me: Pin Down ASAP, ideally before he even reaches me. Then run off for a bit and hunter's shot, so he's poisoned AND bleeding. WD/Unguent as needed. Keep going until he either gives up or is dead (or I am).

Rangers: with or without pets, I concentrate on the ranger. Have to let Frenzy die, which is a bummer. But I keep poison up and focus on distracting shot, particularly for unguent (man it's a bummer when that gets distracted).

When it works, it works well - I've taken down every class when 1 on 1 (or as close as arena comes) eventually. But it can take a long time, and if two people gang up on me or things get hectic I can (and do) make mistakes and wind up dead. Getting better, though.

Ensign · Jun 01, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Shrapnel did a pretty good overview of a standard Barrage build. Just remember that you can slap the Ranger core onto several different secondaries - grab Judge's Insight on that shell with a R/Mo for damage spiking, or Conjure Element if you're an Elementalist. Other skills change in value depending, of course - Dual Shot becomes rather sexy with Conjure Element up.

I disagree with Shrapnel a bit regarding Distracting Shot. Sometimes, yeah, you know your target is going to be casting something big and obvious, like a Meteor Shower, and you want to save it for that - but in the absence of said obvious targets you can just toss it around like it's going out of style. At 13+ Expertise it costs a paltry 2 energy, fires quickly (3/4 of a second), still triggers Zealous / Conjure / etc, and always annoys the target. Plus you'll catch a surprising amount of junk just by having those Distractings coming in - sure, you won't be able to sit on a Monk and hit an Orison with Distracting, but if they're just spamming heals the odds are pretty good that you'll hit one with a random arrow.

With practice you should be able to hit anything with a two second cast time or longer consistently. If you need practice just go ettin hunting in Nebo Terrace. They'll spam Healing Signet under fire, you know it's coming, and you should be able to nab it with a Distracting Shot every time if you're camping it. If that's a bit tricky work on Trolls first and try and hit the Unguent. You're just training your reflexes to nab these every time.

Put Distracting Shot on your skill bar as a Ranger, and never move it. For me, Distracting Shot is skill #6. If you see something you want to interrupt you should instinctively hit Distracting Shot as a trained reflex. Learn to love it.

11+3 Expertise. Or 10+4 Expertise. Or 12+2 Expertise if all else fails. This is *not* optional, as much as you might wish it to be. Your skills are *expensive*, and you have neither the energy or regen to handle them without the amazing cost reduction of Expertise. Stopping at 9 Expertise makes your 10 energy skills cost 6, which is minimally acceptable, but at 14 Expertise those skills cost you 4. 5 energy skills cost 2. Without speed buffs you literally cannot run out of energy chaining 5 energy skills together with 14 Expertise. The strength of a Ranger is not in his base bow damage, but in using a skill with every single attack. If more than a quarter of your attacks are normal you're doing something wrong.

Oh, and don't fear 'bland' builds. They become cookie cutter staples for a reason.

Peace,
-CxE

Shrapnel_Magnet · Jun 01, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I agree, Ensign... I made that statement about not wasting it, but then later retracted it further on in the post... would it kill you to read the whole thing?? lol.

Either way, yes, Distracting shot is a fun skill and I keep mine on skill slot #3. Skill positioning on your bar is more important that you might think... I find 4 and/or 5 to be the best for a stance you use often, like Frenzy or Tiger's Fury or even a Prep/Enchant that you use... Read the Wind, Conjure Element, Judge's Insight, etc.

Skills like Concusson and Savage shot, however, I don't really like to throw around... well, Savage Shot isn't a big deal, but Concussion Shot is an investment. At expertise 14, it's going to be costing you 11 energy... that's around 1/2 to 1/3 of your total energy pool. You probably want to be hitting something good with this one.

That said however, Concussion Shot is nice not just for the interrupts, but the Daze as well. If you hit someone with Concussion while they're casting Firestorm, you're still getting the Daze effect... so you don't HAVE to hit something that's important with it... just make sure you hit SOMETHING. But again, 11 energy for a condition that's easily removed... you might be better off hitting something important.

I've personally never played around with Punishing shot, so I can't attest to how good it is or isn't... actually, I'm not sure if anyone has even found this skill yet, lol. As an elite though, it's hard to compete with a skill like Barrage on your skill bar...

Elythor · Jun 02, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

How well are you interrupting people if you don't use any "quick arrow" skills like Read the Wind or Favourable Winds? Do you think it'd be better to take out Barrage and put in Read the Wind instead if my aim is for interrupting??

Typhoon · Jun 02, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

My primary PvP build, before the INX or whatever build was introduced:

10 Expertise
10 Marksmanship
11 Wilderness Survival

Distracting Shot
Poison Arrow
Wildcard, usually a preperation like Ignite Arrows
Throw Dirt
Barbed Trap
Whirling Defense
Troll Inguent
Wildcard, usually Storm Chaser

Edit: Oh, and my weapon is a yellow 15+% damage poisoner's longbow. I'm always trying different suffixes, but I tend to stick with +armor grips because they are 100% guaranteed effect. I have a shortbow for extra damage, but I rarely use it because the longer range is very comforting.

One of the most solid PvP ranger builds I've used, and I still love it. Poison Arrow with a poison bowstring delivers a mean 20+ seconds DoT that is incredibly spammible. Throw Dirt and Whirling Defense make it very easy to get in and out of melee range with the enemy while dropping barbed trap offensively. Bleeding + Poison for 20+ seconds is very nice and easy to setup on multiple people. Distracting Shot is always good to kill healing signets and ressurections.

There's a few skills I subsitute or remove without gimping the rest of the build. Sometimes I swap storm chaser for a monk res, or that and ignite arrows for two good mesmer skills, switching marksman for a mes talent.

The best thing about this build is that poison arrow is so annoying, I am guaranteed to get at least one stray warrior dedicated to beating on me. This build has no mercy against warriors, especially when leading them far enough away from the group and crippling them for 20+ seconds while dotting and nailing them in the back with crits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign

With practice you should be able to hit anything with a two second cast time or longer consistently. If you need practice just go ettin hunting in Nebo Terrace. They'll spam Healing Signet under fire, you know it's coming, and you should be able to nab it with a Distracting Shot every time if you're camping it. If that's a bit tricky work on Trolls first and try and hit the Unguent. You're just training your reflexes to nab these every time.

With practice and the right conditions, you can interrupt orison with distracting shot. You have to literally be in their face, while they are spam healing with orison, and you have to time it as orison is fading out with the hopeful chance he casts it again immediately. I've had many situations though where I nailed orison with distracting shot, and the dumbfounded monk didn't know what to think of it before getting plastered by focus fire.

Cymmina · Jun 02, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

I'm not going to claim to be godly, but I seem to do ok in PvP/PvE. I don't have all that many ranger skills unlocked yet, so I'm kinda limited at the moment. I usually prefer playing mesmer, so I tend to play as more of a harasser. Obviously I use a bow with an elemental bowstring with these builds.

PvP R/E (10 marksmanship/10 expertise/8 wilderness/8 water magic)

Power Shot
Penetrating Shot
Kindle Arrows/Ignite Arrows/Apply Poison
Storm Chaser
Water Trident
Conjure Frost
Troll Unguent
Pin Down

PvE R/E (5 bm/8 expertise/8 wilderness/10 marksmanship/8 fire magic)

Power Shot/Penetrating Shot
Dual Shot/Poison Arrow
Ignite Arrows
Feral Lunge/Sig of Capture/Fire Storm/Marksman's Wager
Troll Unguent
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Conjure Flame

I reall like Dual Shot + Ignite Arrows. While the physical aspect of your attack is reduced by 25% for dual shot, the elemental aspect from ignite arrows is not. Plus, if you've got a big concentation of mobs, you'll see a huge string of numbers pop up at once, which is kinda cool, even if it isn't all that useful.

I'd eventually like to get Glimmering Mark + Conjure Air, but I'll have to wait for a shocking bowstring, even if I do get the skills.

Demetrious · Jun 02, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

This is a PvE built character that I have currently gotten side-tracked with in the competitive arenas.

I'll put down my PvP build for right now. I think it is ok - good to very good with some groups and probably weak to poor with other groups. In the lv 10-15 arena I would say I'm over 50% with multiple runs of 5-15. Last PM was good with runs of 6, 7, and 9 and 6 total loses but that is not common.

Overall, I don't have ANY runes or equipment that I personally have not found so that is probably a handicap next to some other players in the arena.

R/Mo - level 15

Attributes:
Expertise = 8 + 1 - minor rune
Marksmanship =9 - mask
Healing - 7

Skills:
Penetrating Shot
Hunters Shot
Distracting Shot - spammed
Pin Down
Animal companion skill
Healing Breeze
Orion of Healing
Rez

If you see a skill like Frenzy or Poison Arrow or Whirling Defense like the lv 15 above - they aren't on my list because I don't have them

I see a build like that and wonder if I am not progressing the main plot enough - just got to Yaks Bend.

Longbow 11-17
Shortbow 9-14

No upgrades on either.

That is it. It is a great character in PvE where I trade out pin down and often distracting shot for pet skill and Ignite arrows. The healing probably is better suited for PvE than for PvP. In PvP, damage is soooo concentrated I have a hard time really serving as a monk. I can assist or help a player losing in a 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 fight but 2 warriors get on top of somebody and I can't heal enough to save them - real players just focus more than the computer AI.

I know that the pet may not be perfect but I have a hard time correctly using the 7 skills I have. It is a placeholder that seems to simplify my build right now and the cat does some damage and does seem to help. After I get more efficient with the 7 skills and timing and appropriate uses, I may drop the pet but right now this is the most successful build I have found for my ability. It is simply hard to heal - and disrupt - and pin down - and often call targets for the group. That is about all I can put on my plate.

Dreamsmith · Jun 02, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

My approach is almost the opposite of what Ensign suggests. Hmm, that's usually a bad sign. Heh. In any case, rather than try to make sure all my shots are skills, I try to make sure my normal attack does a lot of damage by piling on every buff I can get my hands on. Here's Guy de Glastonbury in his current form (the web page is a little out of date):

Attributes:

Marksmanship: 12 (10+2)
Expertise: 9 (8+1)
Beast Mastery: 9 (8+1)
Wilderness Survival: 8 (7+1)
Water Magic: 8

Skills (PvE):

1) Tiger's Fury (Stance)
2) Dual Shot (Bow Attack)
3) Barrage (Bow Attack)
4) Distracting Shot (Bow Attack)
5) Troll Unguent (Skill)
6) Ignite Arrows (Preparation)
7) Conjure Frost (Enchantment)
8) Favorable Winds (Nature Ritual)

For PvP, Barrage get replaced with Penetrating Attack, Troll Unguent gets replaced with Pin Down, and Ignite Arrows gets replaced with Kindle Arrows.

Play is simple enough. Before engaging the enemy, stack up on the buffs, first Favorable Winds, then Conjure Frost, then Ignite Arrows, then open with a Dual Shot and hit Tiger's Fury. Tiger's Fury lasts for 9 seconds and gets renewed every 10, boosting your number of attacks by 50% (2/3 time/attack = 3/2 attacks/time) and thus damage from your attacks and all the buffs. Dual Shot gives a 50% boost to your bow damage and a 100% to the buffs for one attack. In theory, when fighting many tightly packed foes, Barrage is worth giving up the preparation. In practice, I'm still making up my mind; I just picked it up from Markis the other day, so it's still experimental.

Favorable Winds is likely to remain up for the duration of any engagement. Conjure Frost lasts a minute, and doesn't take long to recast if it does expire. It's a pain when it gets disenchanted, though; I'll be experimenting with Oath Shot at some point to see if it's worth a slot for the dealing with that. Ignite/Kindle Arrows lasts a good 24 seconds, after which you spend 2 seconds rekindling it (12/13th's efficiency, a little better than Tiger's Fury's 9/10ths).

With Tiger's Fury running 90% of the time, the attack rate with my Icy Half Moon appears to be pretty close to my W/Mo's with her sword. The damage also appears to be fairly comparable, although I suspect that since it comes from a sum of smaller numbers rather than a single larger one, it's more prone to absorption. It's also spread across three types: physical, fire, and ice, so I don't worry much about opponent resistances -- nearly anything that's strong against one of these types is weak against another, balancing it out.

It's actually a pretty "lazy" build. Other than keeping the buffs up and hitting dual shot once in a while, you can pretty much let the character just fire away, which is good for me since I'm generally not terribly good at keeping up with jabbing skill buttons a lot (too often I seem to hit them too soon, then don't notice for a second or two that nothing happened). In theory I'm sure Ensign's approach of making every attack a bow attack skill would yield more damage, but in practice, if I were playing it, it would probably yield less damage due to that. Damage from this build is high and consistent. No real fancy moves other than dual shot, just pound away at accelerated speed with triple-buffed attacks.

Beqxter · Jun 02, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Dreamsmith: if you remove Unguent for PvP, you're totally without healing - do you just rely on a monk then? Seems risky for Arena, but I guess for guild combat when you know what you're getting it might be fine.

Demetrious: Frenzy is a warrior skill, so your current build will never get that. But at your level you should be able to breeze through the Shiverpeak missions and get to Kryta, where you can find Poison, WD, and other assorted really nice skills. If you're already 15, though, you'll probably hit 16 by the time you get there, which means no more Shiverpeak arena. And Lions Arch arena is HARD for a 15/16 - seems most teams are made up of 20's, and they'll kick your ass. They do mine, anyway. For a while I was intentionally avoiding xp because I was concentrating on accumulating skills, but now I think I need to do some leveling in order to play with the big kids.

I would also advise you to either use your pet, or lose it. Without any skills buffs or points in beastmastery your kitty is nothing more than a mild distraction to most other players, and you'll find it is very nice having that 8th slot for a skill you use.

Demetrious · Jun 02, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Thanks for the feedback. Guess I typed Frenzy before thinking. I am simply playing around in the arena - practicing moving - pin down and distracting shot. My plan is to finish off the last 20% of the level in the arena and then go get skills and xp via PvE up to level 19 or so and then go to the next arena. I agree with the pet - it just seems to work for right now with me really working on the other stuff - but you probably convinced me to jump.

Dreamsmith · Jun 03, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by deolmstead

Dreamsmith: if you remove Unguent for PvP, you're totally without healing - do you just rely on a monk then? Seems risky for Arena, but I guess for guild combat when you know what you're getting it might be fine.

Yup. Guy de Glastonbury does not do arena, I use my W/Mo for that.

Actually, I don't see Troll Unguent as being terribly useful in PvP in any case. Only in PvE can you get away with using a healing spell that takes a short eon to activate, followed by a longer eon to fully deliver the healing. In PvP, rely on the monk, or failing that, pin down your attacker and run for it. Either option delivers better survival odds that standing around waiting for what's got to be the slowest healing spell in the game to actually start working. And you do have to hold perfectly still for the whole time, and hope you don't get disrupted, knocked down, or such. In PvP, I'd take any sort of snare or dodge/sprint skill over Troll Unguent.

Ensign · Jun 03, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

I certainly have nothing against buff stacking, it's a great strategy that more people should use. The only real issue that you face is that the developers have become aware of the strength of buff stacking, and thus it's usually impractical to use more than one or two in a reasonable fashion. So, yes, you should be using Conjure, or JI, or a Preparation, or something to buff arrow damage - but there's no reason you shouldn't be using a ton of attack skills on top of that.

For the record, I'm partial to Kindle Arrows with a +5 Vampiric Bow at the moment for maximum damage output.

Peace,
-CxE

Typhoon · Jun 03, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

Actually, I don't see Troll Unguent as being terribly useful in PvP in any case. Only in PvE can you get away with using a healing spell that takes a short eon to activate, followed by a longer eon to fully deliver the healing. In PvP, rely on the monk, or failing that, pin down your attacker and run for it. Either option delivers better survival odds that standing around waiting for what's got to be the slowest healing spell in the game to actually start working. And you do have to hold perfectly still for the whole time, and hope you don't get disrupted, knocked down, or such. In PvP, I'd take any sort of snare or dodge/sprint skill over Troll Unguent.

No offense, but your statement is a load of bull. You are eager to associate the common risks of using almost any skill with this specific skill alone, and take it to an extreme where you ignore all practicality. I've never met a ranger who couldn't figure out when and how to use troll inguent consistently in PvP when just applying some common sense.

Troll Inguent is not a damage sponge. If your idea is to cast it off while getting nailed by the opposing team and soak damage, then you can drag it off your skillbar and go sit with the warriors and boggle about why troll unguent and healing signet fail so often. That is not how the skill works.

If you've ever seen a warrior run away from a battle and quickly cast healing signet before others can get back into range to react, or if you've ever seen a ranger cast troll inguent after an evasion stance, then you can understand the example on how to use it properly.

Dreamsmith · Jun 03, 2005, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoon

No offense, but your statement is a load of bull.

I don't think so, but I do think your reply is a load of bull. No offense.

Quote:

You are eager to associate the common risks of using almost any skill with this specific skill alone,

Blatantly false statement -- my scorn for skills that require more than two seconds to activate is pretty universal, I by no means associate the risks with this specific skill alone. I don't know where you got that impression, you appear to be reading into my post things I never said.

Now, it is true I'm more forgiving when it's something like a Nature Ritual, which you can cast before going into combat, but something like a healing skill ought to work a bit more quickly. Also, the "common risks" are hugely bigger for skills like Kindle Arrow than Conjure Flame, and bigger still for skills like Troll Unguent, or Phoenix, or the like. The risk involved here is far from common -- yes, getting any skill off in battle is a gamble, but very few skills are this big a gamble.

Quote:

...and take it to an extreme where you ignore all practicality.

No, practicallity is the foremost thing on my mind here. This skill isn't useless, but there are much more practical alternatives.

Quote:

I've never met a ranger who couldn't figure out when and how to use troll inguent consistently in PvP when just applying some common sense.

Indeed.

Quote:

Troll Inguent is not a damage sponge. If your idea is to cast it off while getting nailed by the opposing team and soak damage, then you can drag it off your skillbar and go sit with the warriors and boggle about why troll unguent and healing signet fail so often. That is not how the skill works.

If you've ever seen a warrior run away from a battle and quickly cast healing signet before others can get back into range to react, or if you've ever seen a ranger cast troll inguent after an evasion stance, then you can understand the example on how to use it properly.

I have, and I do understand how to use it properly. I just consider it an inferior alternative. I'm not sure why you think I'd disagree with anything you said here. I don't think the skill is useless, or I'd never use it at all. I just think there are better alternatives in organized PvP. Inferior does not mean useless, it just means inferior.

The only non-Monk healing I ever bring to GvG or Tombs is Ether Feast. We have an abundance of monks in my guild -- PvP builds don't need Troll Unguent, Healing Signet, or any of the other inferior alternatives. Count on your monk, and if necessary, back off or use delay tactics, as I suggested in my last post. It is, I believe, a far superior way to do things than bringing skills like Troll Unguent to PvP (other than random Arena).

Zeru · Jun 03, 2005, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Hey, what do you know, a constructive and helpful thread

Guess I'll add the ones I used in bwes and plan to use when I bother to unlock superior expertise.

Standard damage/interrupting

R/E

Expertise 10+1+3
Marksmanship 10+2
Water Magic 9
Beastmastery 7+1 (8 second tigers fury i believe)

Barrage {E}
Dual Shot
Conjure Frost
Pin Down
Tigers Fury
Debilitating Shot
Distracting Shot
Ice spikes

The goal here is to pull out impressive damage with barrage/dual spam along with Conjure and Tigers Fury attack boost, which you will keep up 80% of the time. Ice spikes is expensive but well worth it if you can fire off 3-4 barrages into a stacked group. Ideally you won't be using it often but it's definitely an option.

Ideally for a bow I'd like either a zealous short bow or half moon, with 15+% damage with enchants or overall and preferably a 20% longer enchants for a 72 second Conjure. Zealous over +5 vampiric due to constant recasting of TF and Conjure Frost although I haven't tested this with the longer TF recharge time.

Debilitating/Distracting Shot are the main staples for disrupting. Use of distracting has been well explained by others in the thread; won't go into that. For debilitating you should focus on the monks, eles, or mesmers, in that order. It works great on ele's to keep their mana low after they've exhausted a lot of it or just chained a bunch of air spells successively and have heavy exhaustion (pretty sure multiple exhaustions stack).

A different look at the same style (Rangers are so flexible!)

R/N

Expertise 10+1+3
Marksmanship 11+1
Wilderness Survival 8+1
BeastMastery 6+1

Incendiary Arrows {E}
Kindle Arrows
Ignite Arrows >I *believe* these two stack. If it's wrong please say so.
Tigers Fury
Favorable Winds (if another ranger is on your team, if not, go with pin down)
Rend Enchantments
Dual Shot
Distracting Shot

This one involves a lot more buff stacking. If kindle/ignite arrows do stack you are adding some serious damage onto Incendiary (1/3 of the time though) and Favorable Winds, with of course, the ever lovable Tigers Fury and Dual Shot for added effect.

Rend is a special use spell. Use it right before you plan to focus on a heavily buffed target. Great, but not useful too often.

Distracting is there as always, make sure you use it often. With this build you will be doing a good deal of damage on single targets, but you also will have more downtime getting stances ready. Good though if your team needs an extra guy with rend.

Bow would be similar to above stats, vampiric+5 instead for more damage.

Rangers can pull off a lot of different stuff, and it's usually defined by what elite their using. Barrage, Incendiary, Oath Shot, Marksmans Wager, and Melandrus can all work great if used properly. Make sure to include one.

Sidenote: Troll ungent really is not that useful. Rangers get focused on early so rarely it's not worth it. If a warrior is on you and your monks/casters are alive be thankful he is and ask for healing once in awhile and laugh at him waste his time, or just pin down and run if you get in danger. And a 3 second cast time for regen of time is never good. If a caster is on you when your monks/casters are alive, that's even more laughable in most cases considering Ranger armor and interrupting skills. I wouldn't even bother disrupting him though; he's probably not doing his job, better off going for someone who is.

filter · Jun 03, 2005, 04:44 AM // 04:44

I *think* you can only have a single preparation active at a time. Have to confirm this.
Conjure is an enchant and stackable on top of a preparation.

Typhoon · Jun 03, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

I have, and I do understand how to use it properly. I just consider it an inferior alternative. I'm not sure why you think I'd disagree with anything you said here. I don't think the skill is useless, or I'd never use it at all. I just think there are better alternatives in organized PvP. Inferior does not mean useless, it just means inferior.

So I guess this new statement is different than "only can get away with in PvE" and "slowest healing spell in the game" which you boldly stated in the first place.

But whatever, I stand by my original words.